About the poll to remove SWP gear

[Xaru]

I think it's really sad that the GM who implemented the poll (Exsurgo?) has decided to make a biased poll, with sarcastic answers regarding the use of consumables. If you want to have a poll at least make it a fair one instead of having a biased one. You made the poll vendor and put it only in the BG area where the majority of non-donor people hang out, and didn't put one in the donor zone. You've basically rigged this poll so it's obviously going to be in the favour of the GM who wants this vote to go the way he wants it. Why don't you just implement the fix without any input from the community instead of pissing about like this? It's obvious you want it done and you don't care for anybody elses opinion.

The reality is, you're removing SWP gear that we donated for, that we decided to donate for only on the understanding that we could use SWP gear. If you're going to remove it then what about all of us who donated? We sure as hell didn't donate to do PvE with BiS items. We did because this is one of the only servers left if not the only server left that gives us any choice over how we want to play. And what about consumables? We had to farm professions to get those consumables, and farm them every day to use them. It's our choice if we want to use them in BG's or not. Once you remove SWP gear we will have absolutely no choice over how we want to play. If we want to experiment with a new spec and try fun things out we can't, because we only have the choice to roll with S4 gear. That's boring, and your reasoning for doing this fix is because a few people (maybe a dozen) roll in BG's with a lot of SWP gear. And for that alone you're either going to put in a dodgy non-blizzlike fix that will undoubtedly balance the PvP here in an entirely new direction, or you're going to away gear from maybe a thousand people? More? I don't know how many people have donated here. But you've already made us farm hundreds of thousands of honor to get our gear, and now it's all for nothing? How many thousands of hours are going to be wasted?

I understand that it can be annoying to be killed by some guy with full SWP gear using his trinket, but if you think the same thing can't happen in S4 gear then you're wrong. The only difference will be that you will literally have no chance of killing them because instead of having diminishing returns through having low health, armour and resilience they now are capped out in everything and will undoubtedly destroy you in 1v1.

This used to be a fun server, for 5 years this server was a fun server, with no custom OP items it attracted the attention of the players we have now who make up the community. And now, over the last 2 years you have completely changed this server, confused, you have removed all of the fun aspects of this server. I don't recall people whining back when everyone had donor food, healthstones, soulstones, full SWP gear (including gear that currently costs money to buy) obtainable from ZA bosses. Professions that were even more easily obtainable with 10x rates. Items like Magic Dust being available at donors for us to use to silence people with in BG's. And two guilds that farmed kills all day and night. The difference is not that things are worse now, but that the few people on this forum (less than a dozen people) are more vocal and are complaining in multiple threads giving you the impression that it's a larger problem that it actually is.

The way I see this server going, is next you'll remove professions. Because they're not fair. And after that, why not remove S4 gear? After all that gives players an advantage too. Hell, why not scrap the entire server and reroll it into a TBC experience server if that's what you want to do. You GM's/Devs need to work out in your head what you want with this server, instead of messing the players around.

That's all I have to say.

[Henhouse]

I had to double check and make sure it wasn't Firstaidkit who wrote this thread.


Firstly, stop jumping to conclusions. I specifically made the poll to actually get feedback on these systems we were thinking about to see what the community's response was. They are, in fact the exact OPPOSITE of what you're harassing me about them being. They are to gather full feedback from everyone, INCLUDING NON-DONORS to see what the community really wants. You talk about the poll being biased on one question about spamming consumables, which truly, has gotten out of hand. Then you proceed to make it a problem that the polls are positioned in the absolute most populated and passed through area on the server, but complain it's not in the donor mall. People do not hang out in the donor mall, and if they do, it's absolutely no where near to how much the normal mall has. That argument made no sense and cannot be backed by anything.

Not even going to reply to second paragraph. No idea where you imagined we're wiping SWP gear, because we're not. Just because I'm asking the community's opinion doesn't mean I want to do that. I have been one of the large voices of NOT wiping the SWP gear on this server, yet, there you go again harassing me about this.

To be honest, a lot of those items were extremely unfair. Being able to put players asleep whenever you wanted? You claim a system like the SWP modification won't be "blizz-like" but then you expect people were putting each other to sleep, using 1000 FAPs, and eating holiday consumable food that is extremely beneficial to CASTERS to be "blizz-like"? The food was removed because it heavily favored their return time to the battlefield. The amount of restoration meant they could leave combat during a fight, spend no more than 4-5 seconds and have almost full mana back to continue fighting. It was unfair in enormous ways.

Funserver doesn't mean Amok Server. We have to maintain some fair balance here, else it's completely unfun for those classes to play.


I understand you don't like to see these changes, but frankly after 5.5 years of doing this, there's not much else we can look into doing, discussing.

TL;DR: Stop jumping to conclusions and calm the fuck down. A poll is a poll, not a vote.

[Xaru]

Sorry, I assumed it was a vote which would then turn into affirmative action against SWP gear. I just feel like I'm trapped in the corner here, and I'm the only one who's fighting back and standing up for what I feel will be the servers downfall. Maybe people will be satisfied for a day or two, maybe a week, but then they'll miss their SWP gear and the good times they had doing crazy shit with it, and they'll realise they can't do that anymore and get bored.

Sorry if I offended you also.

[Henhouse]

Sorry, I assumed it was a vote which would then turn into affirmative action against SWP gear. I just feel like I'm trapped in the corner here, and I'm the only one who's fighting back and standing up for what I feel will be the servers downfall. Maybe people will be satisfied for a day or two, maybe a week, but then they'll miss their SWP gear and the good times they had doing crazy shit with it, and they'll realise they can't do that anymore and get bored.

Sorry if I offended you also.

To be honest, I don't know what's best anymore. I'm being pressured by so many people to make balancing changes, but at the same time we remember that's what makes SF, SF. And lately I have been thinking that creating some kind of too bland server may actually be the worst thing for SF.

But there's no entire way to know for sure. I just know with our history, it obviously worked.

[foulacy]

Well, I'm quite curious about how the community feels about the latest poll questions :D This time especially !

[Exsurgo]

I don't recall people whining back when everyone had donor food, healthstones, soulstones, full SWP gear (including gear that currently costs money to buy) obtainable

We removed healthstones and soulstones because it was blatantly retarded that other classes gained the benefit of Warlock's unique class mechanics. There was nothing fun about warlocks being marginalised in such a way.

The one advantage of having healthstones was that it gave player's a chance to mitigate the absurd burst that exists on the server.

The poll was never intended to be binding, but instead offered the chance to get some good feedback from the community that might extend across "12" whinning forum posters. Polls, elections etc are easy to manipulate anyway, so why would we let the poll have the final say anyway? And items like the fruitcakes, we could well bring them back. But player's will have to work damn hard to get them.

[castor]

If you want to have a poll at least make it a fair one instead of having a biased one.

How ironic, this is coming from the most biased person on here. So could you please stop making biased posts and only fair ones aswell?

You made the poll vendor and put it only in the BG area where the majority of non-donor people hang out, and didn't put one in the donor zone.

Players not paying should be excluded from community choices? Only the one paying can decide?

The reality is, you're removing SWP gear that we donated for, that we decided to donate for only on the understanding that we could use SWP gear.

You donated for the server, not for the gear.
"Donating:
When you donate to Smolderforge, it is understood that you're actually "donating" at your own risk. Donation items are exclusively rewards for your consideration into donating to Smolderforge. You are not paying for any service, you are donating to keep our servers up. We are not selling virtual items. When you donate, you take the risk(s) involved in donating. All donations go for the maintenance, the website and servers. We are not to be held liable, or credit any refunds for any loss of rewards from donating for any reason. This includes loss of account(s) via account closures, account trading, sharing, etc." - Smolderforge Terms Of Service

And what about consumables? We had to farm professions to get those consumables, and farm them every day to use them.

And once again you say you had to "farm" professions. No you didn't. All you had to do is farm some rep with doubled rates. The professions system as it is now is a complete joke. Having access to all mats and thus being able to craft an infinite amount of pots is retarded and needs to be fixed.

Once you remove SWP gear we will have absolutel no choice over how we want to play. If we want to experiment with a new spec and try fun things out we can't, because we only have the choice to roll with S4 gear.

Oh you poor thing would be forced to play in s4 :-( And why exactly can't you play certain specs with s4? Scared of not being able to oneshot people anymore with your onebuttonspec?

That's boring, and your reasoning for doing this fix is because a few people (maybe a dozen) roll in BG's with a lot of SWP gear.

Go play some BGs against a swp premade while you're s2 geared and then tell me how not boring that is. Even if there are just few people abusing swp, it just ruins BGs on here.

[Xaru]

You made the poll vendor and put it only in the BG area where the majority of non-donor people hang out, and didn't put one in the donor zone.

Players not paying should be excluded from community choices? Only the one paying can decide?

I never said that, only that the polling vendor should also be in the donor mall. Which is perfectly fucking reasonable seeing as how it pertains to donators.

The reality is, you're removing SWP gear that we donated for, that we decided to donate for only on the understanding that we could use SWP gear.

You donated for the server, not for the gear.
"Donating:
When you donate to Smolderforge, it is understood that you're actually "donating" at your own risk. Donation items are exclusively rewards for your consideration into donating to Smolderforge. You are not paying for any service, you are donating to keep our servers up. We are not selling virtual items. When you donate, you take the risk(s) involved in donating. All donations go for the maintenance, the website and servers. We are not to be held liable, or credit any refunds for any loss of rewards from donating for any reason. This includes loss of account(s) via account closures, account trading, sharing, etc." - Smolderforge Terms Of Service

This is a legal statement. It is designed to avoid problems with paypal and other services as well as avoiding trouble with blizzard and other companies. Everybody who donates on this server is effectively buying items, and if there was no item available nobody would ever donate for this server. Legal statements /=/ the true nature of donation services on private servers.

And what about consumables? We had to farm professions to get those consumables, and farm them every day to use them.

And once again you say you had to "farm" professions. No you didn't. All you had to do is farm some rep with doubled rates. The professions system as it is now is a complete joke. Having access to all mats and thus being able to craft an infinite amount of pots is retarded and needs to be fixed.

All you had to do is farm some rep with doubled rates.

All you had to do is farm

farm

Once you remove SWP gear we will have absolutel no choice over how we want to play. If we want to experiment with a new spec and try fun things out we can't, because we only have the choice to roll with S4 gear.

Oh you poor thing would be forced to play in s4 :-( And why exactly can't you play certain specs with s4? Scared of not being able to oneshot people anymore with your onebuttonspec?

I am more than proficient as a ret paladin using full S4 gear and have yet to lose consistently against another ret paladin on this server. I believe I am the best ret paladin on the server, and I'm more than happy playing ret in full S4. But ret paladins, like my current spec, rely on bursting. And if resilience is buffed then that will be an issue and I will only be nerfed further. Facing people with a lot of resilience, or healers, means that I more than likely will go OOM before I can kill them. That is what finishes me off. The only difference boosted resilience will mean for me is a slower death. I'd rather fight someone with multiple SWP gear mixed in with S4 than somebody with full S4.

That's boring, and your reasoning for doing this fix is because a few people (maybe a dozen) roll in BG's with a lot of SWP gear.

Go play some BGs against a swp premade while you're s2 geared and then tell me how not boring that is. Even if there are just few people abusing swp, it just ruins BGs on here.

The premades you face are nothing. Nothing. Compared to what the alliance faced at the hands of Firstaidkit's premades, Firstaidkit would travel in a swarm of death, like a roman legion, making him essentially unkillable, the only reason why Passion could ever beat him at his guild's peak was because we out-strategised them, manouvering around them and avoiding them and focusing on objectives. This, in turn, made our guild stronger and more efficient at BG's. Sadly, nowadays our guild has forgotten about tactics and has turned into a bad copy of ROFLCOPTER, but if you think you have it bad you have no idea. Passion became so strong because we had no guild to counter Firstaidkit and his premades and would be farmed all day and night.

While I sympathise with you, I have been at the receiving end, and it sucks. But, the premades you face are few and far between, and are nothing compared to when we had a core structure going. I don't believe that for the sake of you and other PUG's who face our premade (and often win, due to terrible tactics on our behalf) are worth completely removing swp gear from the server, removing the fun and creativeness that goes along with it. Boosting resil, or removing swp gear, is going to ruin this server. And I think myself, as well as other members of Passion, would be willing to completely disband our guild if it meant avoiding that situation.

[Outskilled]

Not being funny but even after I spoke to you yesterday about it and you expressed what you thought was a valid argument you seem to think that it only bothers you, If something doesn't benefit yourself you cry about it when I was talking about the possible removal of the gear you were crymeariver, then I mentioned that haste was a main factor you were all like "oh well that's ok nerf haste" but if you couldn't play brokeadin without haste it would have been a completely different conversation because you'd be posting nothing but dog shit on the forums like this to get it stopped in its tracks like you are now on a whole.

Your only ever bothered about yourself and not the community as a whole take your blinkers off, you state that with a watered down version of the server on the consumables and end game gear side of things there would be and I quote "No fun, Remember the days when you could burst people, Ten years to kill people, Unkillable Warlocks, Resi Stacking Chars" That's what PvP is all about and as it was on retail then you fed me load of horse shit that I wont even go into about your so called glad days, the Working as a team to shut people down and set up kills is the way your meant to play the gay not this retarded vision you have that if its got 4 healers and doesn't die within 4 seconds due to my retarded burst then resil needs a revamp. Xaru for a long time I actually liked you now I just think your a bigot and you never think of anyone but yourself.

Don't bother replying to me I wont check the thread, just think of other people for once you self centred fuck....

[castor]

All you had to do is farm

farm

You put this out of context. What i was saying is you didn't farm professions you farmed rep. The difference is, you farm rep by just doing some dailys, whereas farming professions involves travelling across the whole map to farm mats, visit profession trainers and farm the recipes. Even when you're capped out with one profession you'd naturally still have to farm more mats. But not on here, once you have the easily obtainable rep you're done.