When i get a rogue in kidney shot and at that exact same time he uses vanish it doesn't count... that's stupid he should still be stunned by kidney shot in vanish/stealth or out of stealth would be understandable.
-To the rogues that have been haunted by this shit
Kidney Shot to Vanish
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QuantumVoid
- Posts: 183
- Location: Under a Boat by the River
Re: Kidney Shot to Vanish
You're absolutely wrong. Kidney Shot is no different to the Vanish --> Immune phenomenon than several other instant-casts with zero travel time, e.g. Blind and whatnot.
The Vanish --> Immune phenomenon is a side-effect of Blizzard's coding and hardware tech limitations, mainly related to the transfer of data via the internet. It is not a bug per se: It is simply a tech side-effect which you can not avoid, but can exploit.
The sole person I've ever seen trying to do something about it and get even remotely close (as in, reduce the delay protocols via hardcore coding plus a bundle of other modifications) gave up after several months of working on that alone. The way I understood it, due to physical hardware limitations, you can not change that exploitable mechanic without breaking literally everything Vanish-related, at least at the current point.
Also, as a matter of fact, I usually tend to be very sceptical of anything code-related, and there are only two people (no names given for obvious reasons) who I trust "no questions asked style". Both are hackers, and one of them is the person mentioned here. As such, I think it is pointless to even continue this discussion.
Anyway, hope I somehow helped.
The Vanish --> Immune phenomenon is a side-effect of Blizzard's coding and hardware tech limitations, mainly related to the transfer of data via the internet. It is not a bug per se: It is simply a tech side-effect which you can not avoid, but can exploit.
The sole person I've ever seen trying to do something about it and get even remotely close (as in, reduce the delay protocols via hardcore coding plus a bundle of other modifications) gave up after several months of working on that alone. The way I understood it, due to physical hardware limitations, you can not change that exploitable mechanic without breaking literally everything Vanish-related, at least at the current point.
Also, as a matter of fact, I usually tend to be very sceptical of anything code-related, and there are only two people (no names given for obvious reasons) who I trust "no questions asked style". Both are hackers, and one of them is the person mentioned here. As such, I think it is pointless to even continue this discussion.
Anyway, hope I somehow helped.
Last edited by QuantumVoid on 29 Jul 2013, 22:48, edited 1 time in total.
Macro Collection: http://www.smolderforge.com/forums/view ... f=4&t=8979
Re: Kidney Shot to Vanish
QuantumVoid wrote:You're absolutely wrong. Kidney Shot is no different to the Vanish --> Immune phenomenon than several other instant-casts with zero travel time, e.g. Blind and whatnot.
The Vanish --> Immune phenomenon is a side-effect of Blizzard's coding and hardware tech limitations, mainly related to the transfer of data via the internet. It is not a bug per se: It is simply a tech side-effect which you can not avoid, but can exploit.
The sole person I've ever seen trying to do something about it and get even remotely close (as in, reduce the delay protocols via hardcore coding plus a bundle of other modifications) gave up after several months of working on that alone. The way I understood it, due to physical hardware limitations, you can not change that exploitable mechanic without breaking literally everything Vanish-related, at least at the current point.
Also, as a matter of fact, I usually tend to be very sceptical of anything code-related, and there are only two people (no names given for obvious reasons) who I trust "no questions asked style". Both are hackers, and one of them is the person mentioned here. As such, I think it is pointless to even continue this discussion.
Anyway, hope I somehow helped.
Do you perhaps know the time on the immunization? It would have to be miliseconds I'm assuming, as you can also completely negate spells such as death coil etc.
Like you said, blind and other instant travel time spells can be avoided by timing your vanish. Though, is there a way to know how long that immunity lasts, so you can time it right down to the last second/milisecond reaction time?
The immunity lasts 0.5 seconds.
Macro Collection: http://www.smolderforge.com/forums/view ... f=4&t=8979
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QuantumVoid
- Posts: 183
- Location: Under a Boat by the River
Re: Kidney Shot to Vanish
Nope. How much the immunity lasts is more complicated.
Generally speaking, I do not remember numbers nor have I asked the guy about them (could do, I guess). For traveling spells I follow a general practical rule without trying to estimate the 500 ms mentioned above (since different spells have different flight times). If the flying spell has travelled two thirds of the distance caster-target, you can vanish it. I personally work with three fourths of the distance, as it is more reliable when the caster/you/both are moving.
For non travelling spells like Blind, the 500 ms immunity window stated above is a good estimate. However, from what I've understood, the latency difference (not the latency of one player alone) between two players plays a major role. Also, it is affected by core code, and wether for example there are invisibility/immunity delay mechanics implemented code-wise, as well as other factors. That is the reason vanishing blinds but also blinding vanishes (delaying the use of Blind) even came to light. It was not something intentional, just a very complicated "buggy" mechanic.
Generally, you shouldn't bother estimating an immunity window for instant-land spells like Blind, Cheap Shot, Kidney Shot and whatnot. Even if the window would be one whole second, which is definitely not, human reflexes are at best 250-350 ms (to react solely. Add another 100-200 ms to realise what is happening mid-game, after some practice, we're already at the 500ms mark). Add your latency to the server, the other guy's latency to the server, the delay in the code for the spell to register or not register, and various other factors we don't know of, and you're basically fucked. Vanishing instants is done by luck, prediction and in extreme cases some odd sense of weird intuition.
Generally speaking, I do not remember numbers nor have I asked the guy about them (could do, I guess). For traveling spells I follow a general practical rule without trying to estimate the 500 ms mentioned above (since different spells have different flight times). If the flying spell has travelled two thirds of the distance caster-target, you can vanish it. I personally work with three fourths of the distance, as it is more reliable when the caster/you/both are moving.
For non travelling spells like Blind, the 500 ms immunity window stated above is a good estimate. However, from what I've understood, the latency difference (not the latency of one player alone) between two players plays a major role. Also, it is affected by core code, and wether for example there are invisibility/immunity delay mechanics implemented code-wise, as well as other factors. That is the reason vanishing blinds but also blinding vanishes (delaying the use of Blind) even came to light. It was not something intentional, just a very complicated "buggy" mechanic.
Generally, you shouldn't bother estimating an immunity window for instant-land spells like Blind, Cheap Shot, Kidney Shot and whatnot. Even if the window would be one whole second, which is definitely not, human reflexes are at best 250-350 ms (to react solely. Add another 100-200 ms to realise what is happening mid-game, after some practice, we're already at the 500ms mark). Add your latency to the server, the other guy's latency to the server, the delay in the code for the spell to register or not register, and various other factors we don't know of, and you're basically fucked. Vanishing instants is done by luck, prediction and in extreme cases some odd sense of weird intuition.
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rhaypawnz123
- Posts: 23
- Location: UK BIRMINGHAM
Re: Kidney Shot to Vanish
ok? my point was to not make it immume its dumb...
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QuantumVoid
- Posts: 183
- Location: Under a Boat by the River
Re: Kidney Shot to Vanish
Firstly, that's what I meant: It is not easy to get rid of the immunity part. Infact it's probably one of the hardest pieces of WoW code to handle correctly.
Secondly, why is it dumb? Sure, it originates from a buggy mechanic, but it ended up being an interestingly creative and complex mechanic which, for the rogue class, does open up a whole new skill level once you master it. It is widely praised as the most skillful (and most difficult) part of rogue gameplay.
Aren't you people constantly whining that rogues are faceroll? (even though the class is quite ok, and it's just the retarded swp gear ruining it for everyone) - There you go. Master vanishing things as well as hitting spells on a vanished rogue (SW:D'ing Vanish, Blinding Vanish, Fire Blasting Vanish etc etc).
Secondly, why is it dumb? Sure, it originates from a buggy mechanic, but it ended up being an interestingly creative and complex mechanic which, for the rogue class, does open up a whole new skill level once you master it. It is widely praised as the most skillful (and most difficult) part of rogue gameplay.
Aren't you people constantly whining that rogues are faceroll? (even though the class is quite ok, and it's just the retarded swp gear ruining it for everyone) - There you go. Master vanishing things as well as hitting spells on a vanished rogue (SW:D'ing Vanish, Blinding Vanish, Fire Blasting Vanish etc etc).
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rhaypawnz123
- Posts: 23
- Location: UK BIRMINGHAM
Re: Kidney Shot to Vanish
omfdz every time u write this much i only read the first line nd stop -.-
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QuantumVoid
- Posts: 183
- Location: Under a Boat by the River
Re: Kidney Shot to Vanish
You opened a thread. Stating something. I show you your error. I try to give you some info. And you're too bored to read in order to learn something you did not know. K. Stop reading then. Or just stop sounding like a 9yo and swelling my balls to planet size. Thanks.
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