Regarding Feb 15 Fixes

[Retardcleave]

Posting here to get better attention.

Just noticed we got a changelog, so took a quick check on it and got a bit confused.
First things first:
"Dual-wielding now correctly has a 19% chance to miss on auto attacks. This should help reduce the unusually high amount of damage output we have seen from melee classes."

I hope that's just a typo or you just noted the added miss chance, since DW-ing has a 24% (5+19) chance to miss we all know.
"Dual wielding adds a 19% miss penalty to both main and offhand weapons. The base miss rate for all characters is 5%, so each weapon by itself has a 24% chance to miss (19% + 5%)."
A quote from wowwiki. I was an Enh back in retail so those numbers pretty much got burnt into my head reading wowwiki at the time.

"Second Wind, Bloodcraze, Cannibalize and other % of total health periodic heals will now be correctly affected by healing debuffs."

I'm not sure of this (have to test this yet on other realms), but I think this 'fix' got us into the wrong direction. The reason why Second Wind, Bloodcraze and Cannibalize weren't effected by healing debuffs... is because they aren't healing effects. They never were. They were all regenerate effects and thats why they have the generate/regenerate verb in Each of their description instead of healing. That's also why people used to start using Cannibalize in BG-s even though they had wounds/mortal on, they knew it gave full percentages back and they could just FA after the healing debuff has worn off, since FA is affected by them. And that's also why rogues (who couldn't kite) had a hard time on warriors, especially Tauren ones, since "spamming" KS wasn't a viable solution anymore.
But now it is. Please bear in mind that most of the people complaining to get this pseudo-fix done are those who play broken rogues.
Anyway, I'm not 100% (just 95%) sure if this is the way it should work or not, so I'm yet to test this on realms which have this feature working properly.

This post is intended to be positive criticism, since I'm really glad you guys are doing some serious fixes nowadays. I just hope one day rogues (and warriors!) won't be the ultimate class to play on SF and we'll see some diversity in both arenas and duel zones.

Sincerely,
Retardcleave

[Cube]

I'm with you on the healing debuff fix, but I'm not 100% sure of this either.

The reason why it sounds fishy is that these effects heal a percentage of your total hp, not a fixed amount.

[Exsurgo]

I should clarify about the 1st thing. It is indeed a +19% chance to miss attacks when dual wielding.

I have a few TBC pvp videos on my hard-drive, and it is clear that Health regeneration effects should be affected by healing de-buffs. This is because in the combat log the regeneration appears as a periodic heal. Also remember that Feral Druid healing effects have always been effected by healing debuffs here on Smolderforge, and they share the same mechanics (but slightly different code).

Think of % health regeneration effects as heals. The heal amount is based off your total health, but the actual effect is a periodic heal. The only other type of +health effect are things like the battle-master trinkets.

I'm with you on the healing debuff fix, but I'm not 100% sure of this either.

The reason why it sounds fishy is that these effects heal a percentage of your total hp, not a fixed amount.

Heal is the key word :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brqjJPXQ-UA

3:53 in. You will see that as the wound poison stacks up the healing decreases.

[Cube]

Yeah, I'm with you. As said, wasn't sure at all.

[Exsurgo]

Np, I just wanted to clarify the reasons for the change, as a fair few people seem think that it should be unaffected due to the wording of such spells.

[Outskilled]

I'm with you on the healing debuff fix, but I'm not 100% sure of this either.

The reason why it sounds fishy is that these effects heal a percentage of your total hp, not a fixed amount.

To touch on this, second wind does take a % of healing reduction but NO WHERE NEAR 50% as it is at the moment. On the video "GforceII - Haven towards left, Warrior turns right" Taken from patch 2.4.3 when dueling a rogue ( or warrior ) and watching the Wound Poison Stack and the healing reduction it has on his second wind is no where near the 50% that it currently is here on Smolderforge. links provided

Time - 21:30 ( http://tinyurl.com/dgulqb )

Discuss.

[Retardcleave]

Thank you guys for the quick responses.

(GMs, Mods please delete/modify the mentioned realm names if it's uncomfortable or inappropriate to mention them.)

I had a chat about this with Bizzle, the current GM of the NextGen (the successor of the famous Arena Tournament) realm. You know where those guys like Hoodstar, Hydra, Trig, Drake.. etc played back in the days. He was convinced that being them unaffected by healing debuffs is the right way how it works.
I also made some quick screens whatsoever:

scr1.jpg

scr2.jpg

They are pretty high def, sorry for that, I just wanted to leave them unedited.
It seems like different teams are on a different opinion about this subject.

Anyway, I've checked the Gforce vid and also noticed them being reduced by the wound stacks (bah, Chinese Servers!) so that's enough of a proof for me. I'm glad this settled.

I'm happily willing to have this mechanic, if we will also get rogues critting those 2-3-400s (only rarely above that) on SF warriors as they do on Gforce (with Twinblades!). :)

Sincerely,
Retardcleave

[Exsurgo]

Don't worry, Henhouse has a friendly relationship with Next-Gen wow, so I doubt it is a problem mentioning them here.

As you say from the video, in both the warrior vs rogue duel and warrior vs warrior duel at the end, the healing from Second Wind and Bloodcraze is getting reduced.

As for what Outskilled said, I am pretty sure the reason the heal does not seem to scale 100% with the healing debuff application is due to the delay in GForces SCT, if you look at the healing in the nameplate UI it seems to match what would be expected.

It would be nice if someone could find a TBC warrior pvp video in higher resolution to we could get 100% proof on this one.

Edit: 5:10 in. Warrior vs Warrior.
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=71607

I also do agree that rogues here crit warriors for higher than in the Gforce duel vs the warglaive rogue. Bizarrely I guess rogues here actually have better stats.