Rupture vs expose armor

[Zydar]

Sup everyone. Recently i have been wondering which of those two rogue finishers does more dmg. I understand that it's very situational and it depends on the targets armor. Last few days i have been rolling with improve expose armor spec and i gotta tell ya the dmg is great vs priest, druids and warlocks. Keep in mind that i got 1500armor pen from gear which makes about 4.6k armor pen(whith improved expose armor speced). I haven't really had the chance to test it vs higher armor targets like warriors and shamans but i will do so very soon. Now we all know that the standard hemo spec does not include improve expose armor. You could spec it but you'll have to drop points ether from Vile poisons or Lethality which i think wont be optimal for arenas. You can get away with it in BG's though. I said fck Vile poisons and put the extra points in Expose armor. Now lets say you don't have improve expose armor speced and you are rolling with about 1k-1.5k armor pen from gear. Do you think it would be still better to use expose armor over repture in terms of dmg? I am thinking probably yes. I have been doing some double rogue 2s and the expose armor is great although we get our ass kicked from smart players that know how to counter but it's still very fun. I am thinking would work very well with feral druid too.
That's pretty much all i have. Thoughts down below.

[Exsurgo]

Armour penetration is a very very strong stat in 2.4.3, as gear is loaded with it, and it also becomes stronger the more you have stacked. I would say against anything with mail or less expose would always win out on damage, providing you can stick on the target.

[Deceitx]

Use rupture.

It would be what puts out the most pressure. Expose is only beneficial when you're doing a "5-point" Expose. A "5-Point" Expose would fuck up your pressure so much that the other player(s) is going to have enough time to IronMan themselves against your expose.

Of course there are situations where Expose would be more suitable than Rupture. On a general basis I would go with Rupture.

Remember, most players phanic (pun intended) when they get people 40% and start doing using spells to survive rather than to blow you up. The faster you get the other player to panic the better. I imagine you would hit that panic state a lot faster when you use Rupture!

I very rarely use Expose, mostly against warriors.

Anyways, my two cents here. You don't have to agree.

[Zydar]

I see your point. But I think that if you are in a situation where you feel confident that you will be able to to stay on the target EA can put a lot more pressure. Rupture is really good when fighting other rogues to give them hard time vanishing. Keep in mind the rupture with 3 combo points and rupture with 5 combo points does almost the same dmg. It's easier to get 3 combo points and get it up ticking. When it comes to duels, i find my self using EA every time instead of Rupture. With some pve gear you could easily get warlocks priests and druids in normal form to 0 armor which gets you about 25% to 30% more dmg.
Also it's best to use EA to lower armor targets to get the best of it. Rupture is better in my opinion vs warriors.

[Outskilled]

I would say it's situational, like if you were "priming" your target for example with EA because your healer / partner has baited target #2 into Africa.

[Remind]

expose armor in all case,why?cause you are using rupture when lets say rogue is about to die so u dpsing on him he gotta cos and try to vanish well most of the rogues here dont watch themselves and u can easily fuck them up if u rupture at perfect time and you dont need 5 cp rupture 1 cp rup is enough, so i would go with expose btw if u have that high armor pen you dont need to use 5 cp expose all the time but hey deceitx is here mvp and rogue trainer too in the same time listen to him.In the end i would go with expose then rupture,still im doing arenas in s2 and sometimes i do more dmg then s4 guys cause they suck and cause i keep my expose on 24/7;)

[Hardlight]

For the following calculations i will be using a rogue with the following specs:



Expose armour does the following:
1pt - 410
2pt - 820
3pt - 1230
4pt - 1640
5pt - 2050

Rupture does the follwoing:
1pt = Attack Power * 0.04 + 324 = 406**
2pt = Attack Power * 0.10 + 460 = 665**
3pt = Attack Power * 0.18 + 618 = 987**
4pt = Attack Power * 0.21 + 798 = 1228.5**
5pt = Attack Power * 0.24 + 1000 = 1492**

**For this example, i will be using AP at a 2050 rogue.

The following charts
Combo points - % phys dmg reduction - Difference - Damage required to be dealt to be more efficent than rupture (dps required over a 30 second time span)


A warrior with 10257 armour (49% damage reduction)
1cp - 48% - 1% - 40,600 (1,353dps)
2cp - 47% - 2% - 33,250 (1,108dps)
3cp - 46% - 3% - 32,900 (1,096dps)
4cp - 44% - 5% - 24,570 (819dps)
5cp - 43% - 6% - 24, 866 (829dps)***

A Shaman
1cp -
2cp -
3cp -
4cp -
5cp -

A rogue with 4254 Armour (28.72%)
1cp - 26.72% - 2.00% -20, 300 (676dps)
2cp - 24.54% - 4.18% -15,909 (530dps)
3cp - 22.27% - 6.45% - 15,302 (510dps)
4cp - 19.85% - 8.87% - 13,850 (461dps)
5cp - 17.27% - 11.45% - 13, 030 (434dps)

A warlock with 2037 armour (16.17%)
1cp - 13.35% - 2.82% - 14, 397 (479dps)
2cp - 10.34% - 5.83% - 11, 406 (380dps)
3cp - 7.10% - 9.07% - 10,882 (362dps)
4cp - 3.62% - 12.55% - 9,788 (326dps)
5cp - 0% - 16.17% - 9,226 (307dps)


Formulas for dmg dealt
Since Rupture is the damage we're trying to compare, we set the rupture damage as the amount of bonus damage done due to expose armour

Where you can relate this formula
Total dmg with expose = Total damage + (total damage x (% difference from expose armour)
Total damage with expose - Total damage = (total damage x (%differnce from expose armour)
^ this can be summed up as... Bonus dmg

Bonus dmg (or rupture dmage) = (total damage x (%difference from expose armour)
Total damage required to do to over come rupture damage = (Rupture dmg / % differnece from expose armour)

THUS
Rupture at CPx / (% bonus damage from EA at CPx) = Total damage done to overcome rupture dmg.

[Swackx]

First of all, you can't play rogue like learning math in school, because it takes experience and situational awareness to figure out, which step is the best to do in any situation. Also there are different playstyles, so it's kinda hard to tell a "best" finisher, because its always gear depending too.
However, im not a big fan of expose armor, since it can be easily avoided by dodging, kiting and whatsoever, also considering you invested 5 cps into it.
Gotta say i'd rather go with slice and dice as hemo though, because it's always handy to have it up, when you're swapping targets.

Although expose armor is a very good finisher, if youre playing mutilate imo. Otherwise you won't deal any decent damage against plate or any high armor targets in general and it also helps to get the spec working with bursty CB > Mutilate crits.

Rupture is always good, no doubt about that, but as i already said above, its depending on what you're doing. Duel's/Arena's (which comp)/open pvp/bgs.
I have to admit that 2's is pretty boring compared to 3's, because in 3's there were always comps, where it was worthy for a rogue to use expose armor as finisher (considering you dont have any pve gear, except for cloak, maybe ring and probably trinket as it was ususal back then for pvp'ers).

Greetings Swackx.

[Amgseret]

wat about resil that hurts rupture more

[Ferrum]

Ruuren vs expose armor