Smolderforge Support Community

I need to know what talents, what gems, and what gear.

Thanks.

also, tactics.

harp'n'arp

dis is not wotlk tho

0.0.61. Spam cooldowns Wait till they refesh do it again, Gear wise..rogue gear works well.

First of all, you should note that HARP is semi-viable in S4 (It was the rogue ace spec during S2). By that I mean that the standard Hemo spec will always be ahead of it, and HARP falls somewhere between that and Mutilate (depending on the comp you're running).
The main difference between S2 and S4 HARP is that in S2 Prep reset the cd on your AR, whereas in S4 it doesn't.

Secondly, if you're gonna run HARP, you should know it's useless unless you spec into maces, as the rng macestun made it viable. So, as far as weapons go: Main-Hand > Slow Mace // Off-Hand > Fast Mace (1.5 speed).

Gems: The standard gems you'd use in any other Rogue spec.

Gear: The standard gear you'd use in any other Subtlety spec.

TALENTS --> *NOTE: This website is known to have some tooltip errors, but it is the best I could find. SOME OF THESE TALENTS ARE NOT AS THE SITE DESCRIBES*

http://wow243.gamestool.net/roguet.php? ... 1210400000

Explanation -->

---SUBTLETY TREE---

Master of Deception: No Comment. Must have.
Dirty Tricks: Must have.
Camouflage: I personally like to have it maxed. Can be used to just dump points in, but imo it is useful.
Ghostly Strike: Useful. Not a must, but useful.
Initiative: ^ (You can swap points in Camouflage or run without Ghostly Strike to have 3/3 Initiative, up to you).
Elussiveness: Must have.
Serrated Blades: Must Have.
Preparation: Must have.
Hemorrhage: Must have.
Dirty Deeds: Must have.
Heightened Senses: Very useful. Not 100% must, but at least 1/2 is strongly advised.
Deadliness: Very useful. (Yes, it is better than Master of Subtlety.)

For fairly obvious reasons Improved Ambush is useless. Setup, Opportunity and Sleight of Hand aren't all that bad, it's just the other talents outshine them.

---COMBAT TREE---

Improved Gouge: Must have.
Lightning Reflexes: Since Sinister Strike is useless, it serves as a filler.
Precision: Useful. I'd mainly pick it just to get the Dual Wield spec tho.
Improved Slice and Dice: Must have.
Endurance / Improved Sprint: Must have.
Improved Kick: Must have.
Dual-Wield Spec: Pretty good. You can go HARp with 0/5 in this talent and dump those points to Imp Evisc or Malice from Assassination, but arguably DW-Spec is better. (especially if you use SnD a lot).
Mace Spec: Must have.
Blade Flurry: Depends on personal taste.
(There is no reason to get 3/3 Aggression, as you could spend those 3 points elsewhere (e.g. on Improved Evisc so you gain 9% evisc damage in supplement)).
Adrenaline Rush: Must Have.

Notes:
1. You can experiment with your points spent on Deadliness/Dual-Wield-Spec/Malice/Improved Evisc and find a personal favorite variable of the spec I linked.
2. HARP is what Rogues call a "Rushdown" spec, which means you're pretty much playing like a mentally hindered Warrior on steroids. Great for getting quick pressure up on a single target. You just have to kill things. Fast.

I don't play TBC / on SF anymore due to PC tech problems, but I sometimes check the forums. If you need anything else, reply here and I'll respond as soon as I check back.

you're a beast, thanks for the info.
really appreciate it.

You are wrong. You gem all out attack power as Harp. As Shs/mut Agi is prefered. You don't need crit as Harp, as all your dmg comes from white swings.
Secondly, HARP only works playing with shadow priest or to a certain level with disc priests. Any other setup its bad. Its also bad for Bg's, as the specc only shines for control and that once every 5 mins adrenaline Rush.

THE HARP specc, this is the best Harp specc you can get and the one I used when I played SP ROG on arena tournaments 2.4 server up til 2140.
http://wow243.gamestool.net/roguet.php? ... 1210200000

With discp Priest:
http://wow243.gamestool.net/roguet.php? ... 1210200000

Only way to specc HARP is 0/33/28. Anything else is bad and plain out dumb. And yeah Maces are the best choice. It works with Swords, its alot more dps but the RNG macestuns are just so win as they allways procc with perfect timing.

Peace .

The guy above is actually correct. The spec he provided is indeed better. I guess you can choose wether to go 2/2 Nerves of Steel & 2/5 Deadliness or 0/2 Nerves of Steel & 4/5 Deadliness depending on how much you like RNG. At first I'd go for 4/5 Deadliness but now that I think of it, HARP is already a quite RNG-reliant spec, so 2/2 Nerves of Steel is very likely far better.

As far as gems go, I've found that Sub can also be played with AP gems (dunno abut Mut), that's why I said "same as every other spec". I didn't see any considerable difference between a full Ap gemmed and a full Agi gemmed Sub rogue, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (Also explain :) ) Regardless, HARP is indeed played with AP Gems.

I can't give feedback on viable HARP comps in 2.4.3 (S4) as I've not played the spec in this patch.

Apologies for messing up at some stuff, it's been ages since I've played TBC :< WotLK can really hit you in the head, sadly. (FU I WANT MAH NEW PC NOOOOOOW!)

PS: Gladiator Rogues (e.g. Acrono and his RM 2's and RMM 3's) had proven HARP to be perfectly viable if you played with Mages. BUT: 1. That was in S2 and not S4, so I can't tell myself (It likely doesn't work in S4 that way though, mainly due to the AR/Prep nerf). 2. I can't tell how well it works with a S4 SPR or DPR, as I've not played HARp with these comps.

-------------------------

PPS: Magus, have you played Mut in S4? I'd like some help with the S4 Mut viable specs (from a full DPS 2's/3's comp pov, I don't like playing healer/dps) but I don't remember jack shit about it :/

I'd probably use this -->
http://wow243.gamestool.net/roguet.php? ... 0000000000

If 5/5 Improved Poisons is a must (is it?) I'd either exchange 5/5 Find Weakness for it, or exchange 3/3 Serrated Blades and 2/2 Elussiveness for it, ending up in a 54/0/7 deep Mut build (which isn't nessecarily bad for SPR imo). Any better ideas?

damn, just woke up was bored and restless and wrote meaningless wall of text, gg. :
Well I try to play shadowstep as little as possible. HARP was so good in S2, it didn't really mather what setup you runned. It was Godmode back then .
I don't get why all rogues go for ap when they play Shadowstep, agi is above on spreadsheets + it adds ALOT of passive survival aswell. Mostly play mutilate and I stack agi then aswell, simply because of the 2 %ish crit diffrence. If Ap is better or not for mut, I got no idea I can't remember.
Also, I belive this specc only works DECENT, with an shadowpriest here in S4.
And even for that, its kind of bad. Needs a perfect timing of adrenaline rush, or you are just waddling around doing white hits that doesn't kill.
Mobility is main issue here, you doesn't crit ever, got no initiative so your cheap shots/garrotes gives only 1/2 combo points, so watching the energy and pooling before a burst is crucial.

The place where this specc shines is with Imp kick, macestuns and the initial on demand burst from adrenaline rush. The crazy thing is when playing with shadowpriest as Harp, after a while you stop kicking casts. You just kick as a part of your dps rotation. The kick silence, garrote silence and Shadowpriests Blanket Silence, doesn't DR each other. So timed right you have 12 seconds of Silence of the bat, I just said 12 seconds, because imp kick is 10 sec cd, and you kick first you have it back again when the shadow priest blanket silence is over. You like never ever gets a situation like this , but its possible. mostly we just got early blind to force trinket on healer then we destroyed him in a swap.

I play mutilate mostly, but I have never tried out the sub variation.
I usally either play mutilate weapon specialization 41/20/0 or deep poisons variants 54/0/7 or 49/0/12 dependant on the setups I run. I notice a BIG diffrence when I'm playing with Improved poisons, so I kind of like it, and mostly play 54/0/7 for arenas and 41/20/0 for bg/duels.
41/20/0 is THE highest possible burst and dmg you can get. But its alot harder to play, as you won't have Improved sap or any stealth talents. 54/0/7 is made for sitting on a target and completely locking him down. Once 5 wounds, crippling and mind is up, you will do unhealable dmg and abolish poison will be useless at this point.

Also I noticed you didn't specc into Punctering wounds/improved backstab.
This is a must as it adds crit to mutilate. Mutilate needs to crit alot, or you will be energy starved and jack out 0 pressure. when you only use 41 points in assasination, the talents you pick needs to be carefully chosen for what purpose you will be using the specc for.

I would probably use something like this,

http://wow243.gamestool.net/roguet.php? ... 0000000000

If you decide to drop Improved poison that is fine , you can put those 2 points into Improved Expose armor, max out Lethality or get Master Poisoner. Master poisoner is probably the best choice.
You don't need more than 4/5 points in seal fate, it's 80 % chance and after how the RNG system works, 80 % will be every time. So this gives an extra combo point to spend .

Also most important, get expose armor up, 5 combo points and pool energy to full and dump that Ks and watch something hilarious.