HARP Details

[QuantumVoid]

I didn't remember wether Puncturing Wounds (Improved Backstab on that site) gives extra crit to Mutilate, which is why I had not gone for it.

Now, from what I can guess by reading your post, I suppose that 5/5 Improved Poisons is not a must, but is helpful.
And yeah 4/5 Seal Fate will suffice, I just remembered how fucked up Blizz's RNG is.

Anyway, these two specs are the ones I'd personally use -->
Deep Poison Build: http://wow243.gamestool.net/roguet.php? ... 0000000000 - I'd personally use that in Arena as well, and since I only like double dps, I'd probably go for SPR.
BG/WPvP: http://wow243.gamestool.net/roguet.php? ... 0000000000 - Is it worth going for 2/2 Murder & 3/5 lethality instead of 5/5 Lethality... Thoughts?

Also, any link to said spreadsheets?

[Magus]

I wouldn't ever play without ruthlessness. You got 0 gap closers as mutilate, that Ruthlessness procc for a deadly throw etc. is gamebreaking. But its all about preferances I guess.
I usally drop Murder. Dno but the talent overall is sort of boring. I only go Murder when I'm playing Mutilate combat, as i'm not speccing for expose armor.
also Deadned Nerves is about the most broken talent in the whole three after remorseless attacks.
It only shines if you play like pri lock rogue in 3s or some shit, but 3s is dead on smolderforge so I can't see any scenario where 2 % dmg reduction would actually make a diffrence.

Anyhow, all about preferances.

Yeah Improved poisons only if you're going deep poison variants. It's really nice tho, the application rate is soo fast.

Mutilate kind of only works with Sp or Dp. Ofc. it works with other classes aswell for 2s, but its all about what kind of teams you meet. A mutilate rogues worst counter, is afterall a Shs rogue. With 90 % of the teams queing 2s being shs rogue / x It's an uphill battle from the start. So only way to have a chance of turning those odds are with sp / dp due to dispells and the offensive pressure a pri can pull off.

Dno where I saw the spreadsheets, but I'm 100 % sure, Agi comes over AP for any specc that involves Sinister's Calling.

[Magus]

Actually
http://wow243.gamestool.net/roguet.php? ... 0000000000

Deep poison mut specc I usally run with.
Occasionally I misplace talents and go 5/5 Lethality and 5/5 Seal fate instead of picking up Murder.
Either way it doesn't mather much, but this specc is probably the strongest It can be. If you want 5/5 Deadned Nerves Remove Murder and improved eviscerate for some additional survival. Won't make much diffrence as Imp eviscerate is barely noticeable.

[QuantumVoid]

I generally never was too fond of Ruthlessness. That 60% RNG kinda puts me off. However, your reasoning behind why Ruthlessness is a good talent for Mut is not flawed at all. Indeed, Mut mobility suffers compared to Sub, hence that situational utility proc, even though it's RNG, is indeed quite favoring.
Murder isn't anything special, indeed, and due to the Ruthlessness thingy I suppose it's worth trading for that. I used Deadened Nerves solely to dump the remaining points somewhere.

In regards of Agi/AP for a Sub spec, I dunno. Agi gets favored by Sinister Calling but AP gets favored by Deadliness. It's a toe-to-toe race imo, though I never bothered with spreadsheets so you might actually be correct. However since an Agi gives some passive crit and armor along with half the AP an AP gem gives, it might actually be prefferable. In any case, I've tried both, and I sadly do not remember numbers, but I did not notice any gamebreaking difference. If anything, how lucky you get on shitty RNG matters more than if you gem full Agi or AP. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. :)

Anyway, thanks for the help on the Mut build :P

[Magus]

Yeah its Rng based, But ruthlesness proccs like all the time. Or if you are bursting, lets say a rogue during Ks. You want to dump that 5 pts eviscerate to drop him as fast as possible, ruthless procc 1 pts rupture of it to counter vanish . Ofc this ain't reliable. But its nice either way, or even if hes dotted and hes going to cloak of the ks, deadly throw is only way to even have a small chance of keeping on him.


Agi gives passive dodge aswell. Its pretty much dodge, alot of armor and alot of crit, sacrificed for like 60 ish ap. A rogue with agi gems and sinisters calling got like 38 %ish passive dodge. When I'm playing mut or harp I'm sitting at 32 %ish.

Rng got alot to say yes, but with agi in the longer run you will notice alot more of higher hemo crits + your survival is buffed, alot.

[QuantumVoid]

My bad, of course it gives passive dodge too. Forgot to write that down on my previous post, too sleepy :P

And yeah, with Ruthlessness thingy in mind, the spec you linked would be the one I'd go for too.

In regards of Agi/AP gemming as Sub, considering you've apparently tested it and posted the numbers, yeah, it seems Agi is more beneficial, if we're talking about a ~60AP difference.

Maybe full Agi is better than full AP as Mut too, though I do not have access to TBC atm, so I can't tell. You could check it up the next time you log in and post the numerical comparison between them :)

[Magus]

Not caring at all about the game. Just logging now and then for some bgs/arenas when bored. I play mutilate with agility to reach a minimum of 35-36 % crit. Without agi I feel that my crit is way too low, and if mutilate doesn't crit, the dmg is so dogshit it's a bad joke. Especially considering how expensive a mutilate really is.
I played it occasionally with AP as Combat mutilate with alot of pve gear, dmg is kind of nice, you do alot of high white attacks and mutilate non crits even hit hard, but doesn't procc seal fate so wasn't all that into it..
Ill try to give ap another go later tonight if I'll logg. Too busy with Dishonored and AC3 atm:p

[QuantumVoid]

Fair enough man.
Btw I guess Dishonored rocks. :P

[Cube]

Btw I guess Dishonored rocks. :P

Nope.

[Magus]

Dishonored is the most unique game I've played for years. Graphics ain't the best, kind of like Half Life 2 ish . and it looks like a moving oil painting. It's beautiful in it's own way.
It's a diffrent game from all that other bullshit out there, and it combines all the right elements with a focus on gameplay itself. So pretty much you can do each mission the way you want, and what you do will change the outcome of each mission. Highly recommended.