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Just saw that wacco actually read steven hawkings big bang theory before thinking about god and wanted to pn about it but apparently the messages page is gone. Anyway Ill just dump it here. feel free to explain pns on the new forums.

Steven did leave a gap in his theory and the gap wasnt tiny at all. He explained how time space and materia spread but he had/has no freaking idea how or why these 3 were one in the first place. also he has no idea what caused time space and materia to spread. also no scientist on earth has an idea how any of these 3 were created. this leaves someone whos open minded with only one possible solution. the possibilty that an intelligence wrote the code which is visible all over the universe. dna codes, nature cycles like sea flows, climate cycles, magnetism etc. nothing is random its like a software, one that exceeds our mind by a trillion times. most legit scientists see it sooner or later, just like einstein, and it demands knowledge, an open mind, and a bit of faith to see the code. people who did not read steven hawkings big bang theory or any scientific theory but believe in science not god have more faith in science than I have in god.

ok so as a theist his theory seemed legit but did not prove my faith wrong at all. and just stating that god doesnt exist makes him seem like one of these satanist elite fks. you are a scientists and you claim something without any proof? unless he can provide evidence against the missing parts of his theory which I named above he just showed what science has become today.

seriously though wacco, people like you are the reason I still have hope in mankind. if everyone would use his brain and get some facts through research instead of being an ignorant piece of garbage we could cure this sick planet.

okay that was my sunday-5minute-moment. yall have a nice week.

I have a feeling this is a troll post but w/e.

The things you listed as "intelligent design" are caused by gravity.

What about all the GREAT INTELLIGENT designs such as deformities in species, diseases and the planet only having finite amount of resources? Even our own planet is trying to kills us. Shit, the whole universe is trying to kill us.

It's a human (ok, not even human - this goes for almost all animals) nature to be curious. Luckily for us, our generation has the tools to feed that curiousity (that is, if you wish to) simply by picking up your phone.

The whole idea of science is to try and find WHY things work the way they do. It isn't a rulebook where you can read absolute laws of everything. It is the humankind's way of organizing the knowledge that we have - either already proven either practically or theoretically, or theories currently being studied and worked on. It is ever evolving.

This is why you often see the term "theory of <insert study>". We try to rationalize and explain phenomena that is happening in the universe around us. Unfortunately the universe is complex, so we cannot be absolutely sure about anything. There is a lot of things that 100 years ago were simple theories, but now are considered "laws" of science, like gravity. It takes time to advance, much like in everything else.

Its a shame that people immediately jump into conclusions when they don't understand something "I don't specifically know where all matter originates from, so there must be an omnipotent being that created it all". That is the exact opposite of being an open-minded person like you mentioned. An open-minded person will question things, not jump into conclusions. That is the whole basis of science, to ask and explore. Take for example Newton - he observed an apple fall from a tree, and rather than just thinking "lol free apple", he asked himself "why does an apple always fall perpendicular to the ground? there must be a reason to it", provoking him to do research (and eventually be a contributor to inventing calculus).

The study of science does not exist solely to "debunk god". It is not pushing its agenda, it is not a religion, and it is not being imposed on people against their will. Atheists are pushing an agenda, religions are pushing an agenda - science is not. If you had to label scientists (they probably hate it), most would be agnostic rather than atheist.

I always thought you were only good for trolling but apparently youre also thoughtful deems.

Thats not what I meant. If a theory is logic and legit it doesnt need physical evidence. But the points I have explained clearly ask for answers. Now if steven was a good scientist he would at least make a theory on that matter but he did not and humans will likely never be able to figure out these 3 questions. So just claiming god doesnt exist without answering the questions with a theory or at best with proof has nothing to do with science. Just like the global warming bullshit has nothing to do with science. A cow exhausts more poisonous gasses into the air than a car and these guys want me to drive a prius. The climate is changing but the 0,03% co2 in the air is not causing it. There are natural climate cycles (that have nothing to do with gravity wtf XD) and the world will reboot its surface with an ice age. I said that peoples faith in science is bigger than my faith in god because I know what I believe in and after seeing and reading thousands of things I made a legit conclusion for myself, which barely any atheist who believes in science does. And I said that science is bullshit today because they spend billions on researching global warming instead of researching the climate cycles and finding a way to stop the next ice age. They just found out a few years ago that if the world heats up by 4-6 degrees celsius or so the largest sea flow would come to a stop and the ice age would begin. I get mad when I see some stupid scientist who talks about galciers that were as big as the earth just 2 years ago and claims our cars to be the cause of that. Science can explain lots of things but in thousands of years we obtained knowledge that equals max 1-5% of the processes in nature which is nothing. Of course there are still decent scientists around but science has turned into atheism because if you ask an ignorant atheist about his belief he will tell you "science".

loled about the free apple thing.

For a theory to be legit, it NEEDS some form of proof. Just human logic is not enough. Proof in theoretical sience usually comes in form of mathematical logic. Proof is a very loose term in science - it usually refers to "we have an idea of how it works, and its backed up by these observations we have made - everything just works together but we don't know EXACTLY why". It is NOT perfect, hence why its called "theoretical".

Just because a single person (Stephen Hawkings in this case) says something, does not mean the whole world of science backs it up. He is just an individual, who is free to claim anything he wishes - just like religious people. Just because he is a scientist does not mean everything he says is right every time.

You're right that a theory does not need PHYSICAL evidence, but it absolutely needs evidence in some form (which is usually theoretical, calculations and shit).

Gravity is behind everything in our universe. In fact, our atmosphere is held in place by gravity. Imagine if gravity was weaker on earth, we would have a thinner atmosphere and everything nature and weather related be drastically different.

Climate change has EVERYTHING to do with science. As I said earlier, science is not a set thing - it is a collection of knowledge the humankind has achieved. Biology? Part of science. Physics? Part of science. CHEMISTRY? Part of science Math? Part of science. Climate change is not some magic happening in our atmosphere, its chemistry and physics. Maybe one day we can figure it out completely, but it's still major work in progress.

There is no person on earth that speaks on behalf of science, it is not a secret clubhouse for selected few. It is literally only what we call the knowledge that we have amassed. Scientists speak on behalf of their laboratories, univeristies or themselves - not for the whole world of science.

My personal annoyance with most vocal religious people is how ignorant they are. They constantly ask for proof, proof, proof, proof of everything. Even if that proof exists, it is usually on a theoretical level (because we are not 100% sure about it yet) and they simply brush it off because they don't understand it. Ignorance at its best. How about if you claim something exists, you back it up? You don't get to say "hey, this exists, prove me wrong!". Burden of proof relies on the one first making the claim. Scientific studies are always backed up by atleast theoretical evidence.

What is the point of the atheist line at the end? You literally mentioned the problem in your own post. IGNORANT scientist. People are ignorant and make claims they can't back up.

You cannot compare organized religion and science. They are vastly different things. Religion is based on belief of a deity and the culture around it - its entirely psychological. Science is a study of what we know about the universe. There is nothing to have belief in, no deity or anything like that, it literally is just a collection of the information we've discovered during our development as humankind.

edit, just to add another point against "intelligent design". You claim climate change and global warming is caused by a deity because you don't "believe" in the discoveries we have made, but why would your deity actively try to kill you with global warming? CO2 is an inert, essential-to-life gas - but too much of it WILL cause a lot of problems in our atmosphere - as with any other of the greenhouse gases.

lol bro I didnt say the climate change is caused by god. it is caused by hundreds of events and factos in our nature. co2 might be one of them but it has a very small part. it causes pollution and destroys the atmosphere but 0,03% co2 in the air isnt the a key thing causing the climate change. nature itself is. there have always been climate changes (more extreme ones than our current but were just at the beginning) before man made pollution.

eliminate all other factors - and the one which remains must be the truth. - sherlock holmes

Everything in nature has a perfectly planned system. The food chain, the atmosphere, the earths core, the rotation of planets beyond our imagination, the dna structures, our immune system, our plants and animals, photosynthesis, the list goes on forever.

To every code there is a source. What is the source to one of the most complex codes in the universe, the dna? The creator. Some things happen randomly but from cells to bacteria to our organism nothing is random. Cells and small organisms that have no brains cannot have intelligence. But they do. How do the cells in your organism interact? Not through your brain. How do these cells know they have to get rid off bacteria and infections? How do organisms that have no brain and no organs have intuition?

This intelligence which is visible everywhere directly shows you that nothing is random. But if there was no creator and it was a random system then the organisms could not have an intelligent organization.

Of course you might argue that we could find out things later and be able to explain everything but the intelligence in micro creatures is beyond explanation. in fact any intelligence is. how was intelligence created? I mean monkeys had a retard baby and it was a human fine intelligence can develop from brains but how did the amino acids that hit our planet contain such an intelligence? how did the amino acids without intelligence create life?

the system is intelligent not random. and however you want to call this intelligence it is supernatural. atheists can either claim everything happened randomly or according to some chemical laws that we will find out in trillion years of future or they can claim aliens are behind it. all our knowledge originates from nature. if nature didnt have systems that show some sort of technology we would not have any technology either.
Einstein believed in god because his observations and logic made it clear to him. Now today science has not evolved much in quantummechanics or any field that suggested the existence of god to him, so in this matter we arent any more clever today.

Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convicted that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe - a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. - Albert Einstein

If sherlock holmes way of investigation and einsteins logic dont convince you maybe this will:

"What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator."

- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8

After all my seriousness and my logic I had to add something like this.

@Deems tl;dr God wanted to test human's faith by putting fake dinosaur bones.

@Wamboye The gravity is way more important than what you seem to understand.
About it, even tho theories about gravity converge and complete themselves, there is a mathematical support.
A perfect example is Kepler theory (as a whole, not the 3 laws that Voltaire popularised) and Newton's one.
Kepler defined the force done by the Sun to Planets, but Newton showed that this force is universal. Therefore the Sun doesn't have a particular importance in our Earth's gravitation, but the whole universe has got one. You should look at Laskar's work: His researches on gravity are really interesting.
Anyway Deems has got it, every physical theory is and must be based on mathematics proofs, or older physical theories. The guy you read about bigbang and few others are trying to simplify science a little bit too much to please good moral and religious standarts.

Randomity exists EVERYWHERE in our universe.

The foodchain is not a perfectly planned system. It has evolved into what it currently is, with a lot of adaption.

Micro-organisms are not intelligent. Look up photosynthesis.

Sherlock Holmes is fiction by the way.

If you actually did research, rather than copypasting an off-context quote from Einstein, you would find out that the 'god' he had belief in was something akin to Spinoza's God. Look into Spinoza's God if you want to know what it is (hint: not even close to what you call a religion).

Heres some more quotes from Einstein if you're interested:

"Scientific research can reduce superstition by encouraging people to think and view things in terms of cause and effect. Certain it is that a conviction, akin to religious feeling, of the rationality and intelligibility of the world lies behind all scientific work of a higher order... This firm belief, a belief bound up with a deep feeling, in a superior mind that reveals itself in the world of experience, represents my conception of God."

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends. No interpretation no matter how subtle can change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text."

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

The foodchain is not a perfectly planned system. It has evolved into what it currently is, with a lot of adaption.

If it wasnt all species on earth would have died out. Take away the small krills in the ocean and the foodchain breaks down. It is a perfect imperfection and very sensible.

Micro-organisms are not intelligent.

How can micro organism communicate then? For example the cells in our immune system. As well as micro organisms everywhere in nature. They have intuition and function according to a system. If this is all happens randomly then henhouse is actually a turtle in real life.

Sherlock Holmes is fiction by the way.

But king kong was real right? Sherlocks methods of investigation are legit af. Fiction or not.

(hint: not even close to what you call a religion).

Did you hear me say JESUSJESUSJESUSJESUSJESUSJESUS?
We arent talking religion but god and creation. Einstein believed in a creator, period.

"This firm belief, a belief bound up with a deep feeling, in a superior mind that reveals itself in the world of experience, represents my conception of God."

Thats exactly what I am saying. Science of a higher order. God created the laws of physic and the only magic thing he did was creating the code, materia time and space, intelligence and intuition. Everything after that could be understood if we were clever enough. If you don't get it don't claim he was an atheist. You dont have to be religious to believe in a creator/god.

"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

He does not believe in a personal god yeah. Impersonifications of god did not make sense to him. But as he states there his belief is focused around creation. He obviously believed in a creator. You are going to argue that "as far as our science can reveal it" means "until we can disprove his existence" or whatever but that's not the case because once youve seen the intelligence behind creation you cannot unsee it and no matter what science finds out in the future they will never be able to explain any of the 3 most important questions that I mentioned in the first post. They might figure out some fictional shit about global warming and find out that orcas do not only kill white sharks but each other and what not but as Einstein said the intelligence of the creator exceeds our capabilitys by an endless amount thats why we will never be able to answer these 3 questions with a rational theory.


I like it when I find an atheist whos actually clever and bases his belief on theories and his logic. Most atheists are like "lol god so stupid aliens exist". Nice to see that one of your split personalities is educated deems.