An in depht looking into warglaives balance
Posted: 17 Nov 2018, 23:09
Theres been some debate on the server regarding re-releasing warglaives or not now when all other gear has been released. What i will attempt to do here is to compare how strong double warglaives are relative to hand of deceiver+s4 sword offhand combo for rogues/warriors.
Hand of deceiver:
238-357
114.4dps
2.6 speed
28 stam
2x yellow socket + 6ap socket bonus
54ap
196 pen
S4 sword (quickblade)
113-211
108dps
1.5 speed
31stam
22crit
12resil
9hit
38ap
49 pen
Warglaive mainhand
214-398
109.3dps
2.8 speed
22agi
29stam
21hit
44ap
warglaive offhand
107-199
109.3 dps
1.4 speed
21agi
28stam
23crit
44ap
Obviously you get 2 set bonuses also but to simplify this lets first average out the total different stats between the 2 combinations.
Deceiver+s4 (calculated with 10ap/5crit for both yellow sockets)
59stamina
118ap
245pen
32crit
12resil
9hit
warglaives (you do get a 2 set bonus off chance on hit 450haste 10 sec duration 45 sec internal cd aswell as 200ap when fighting demons, lets go ahead and assume the uptime of the proc to be about 20% so 20% off 450=90 haste worth. The 200ap to demons only applies to warlock pets so im not gonna include it since it only rly matters in arena vs warlocks which is a specific context)
43agi
90haste
57stamina
88ap
23crit
21hit
Now if we "cancel" the stats out we get:
Deceiver+s4 offhand compared to warglaives:
Gain:
2stamina
245 pen
9crit
30ap
12resil
Loose:
43agi
90haste
12hit
Lets make some rough estimations and say the 2 stamina is comparable to 3ap, 245pen to 60ap, 12 resil to 12 hit, 43 agi to 90ap, 90 haste to 135 ap. 9 crit to 18ap. Then warglaives stat wize are worth 114ap over deceiver+s4 offhand and this is taking every stat aswell as the procs into consideration.
Now when we know roughly the warglaives are worth 114more ap stat wize then deceiver+s4 offhand lets look at their weapons speed aswell as dps
Hand of deceiver:
238-357
114.4dps
2.6 speed
S4 sword (quickblade)
113-211
108dps
1.5 speed
Warglaive mainhand
214-398
109.3dps
2.8 speed
warglaive offhand
107-199
109.3 dps
1.4 speed
(The offhands has pretty much the same dps/speed, also since most of your damage will come from your mainhands i think we can say as far as offhands goes its a very slight win for warglaive but it wont make a big difference at all)
Hand of deceiver has a fair bit higher dps then warglaive mainhand (5.1) however its damage range is actually slightly worse. This will make abilities swing slightly harder for warglaives but since hand of deceiver is 0.2sec faster its overall dps as a combo will probably still be very slightly higher then the glaives. (despite estimating 50% of your damage comes from abilities and 50% from white damage) But considering offhand glaive is slightly better in the dps/speed department then s4 offhand makes this pretty even i would estimate this all to basicly cancel out.
So TL:BR i think having the warglaives combo would be equal to having hand of deceiver+s4 offhand and an additional 114ap (this is not including 200ap vs warlocks pets because its to specific of a context)
Is this balanced? For bgs i would say an easy yes, rogues are not one of the top bg classes, especially not vs players who uses consumables such as anti vemon or living action potions, as well as vs organized groups who will just blow you up if you try and focus out someone in the backline.
For arena i would say this gives a bigger edge to rogues comparable to 114ap aswell as 200bonus ap vs warlocks pets. Im not an arena player so i dont know if this would break rogues in 2v2 and 3v3, but it would certainly make them stronger there and since their already really strong in arena i would say its probably not balanced in an arena context to give wars/rogues access to warglaives.
However most people play here for bgs not arena and it would also make it more interesting to play warrior since you can experiment abit with fury or arms dual/wield pvp but i would say that would not be OP at all and worth further analyzing.
Hand of deceiver:
238-357
114.4dps
2.6 speed
28 stam
2x yellow socket + 6ap socket bonus
54ap
196 pen
S4 sword (quickblade)
113-211
108dps
1.5 speed
31stam
22crit
12resil
9hit
38ap
49 pen
Warglaive mainhand
214-398
109.3dps
2.8 speed
22agi
29stam
21hit
44ap
warglaive offhand
107-199
109.3 dps
1.4 speed
21agi
28stam
23crit
44ap
Obviously you get 2 set bonuses also but to simplify this lets first average out the total different stats between the 2 combinations.
Deceiver+s4 (calculated with 10ap/5crit for both yellow sockets)
59stamina
118ap
245pen
32crit
12resil
9hit
warglaives (you do get a 2 set bonus off chance on hit 450haste 10 sec duration 45 sec internal cd aswell as 200ap when fighting demons, lets go ahead and assume the uptime of the proc to be about 20% so 20% off 450=90 haste worth. The 200ap to demons only applies to warlock pets so im not gonna include it since it only rly matters in arena vs warlocks which is a specific context)
43agi
90haste
57stamina
88ap
23crit
21hit
Now if we "cancel" the stats out we get:
Deceiver+s4 offhand compared to warglaives:
Gain:
2stamina
245 pen
9crit
30ap
12resil
Loose:
43agi
90haste
12hit
Lets make some rough estimations and say the 2 stamina is comparable to 3ap, 245pen to 60ap, 12 resil to 12 hit, 43 agi to 90ap, 90 haste to 135 ap. 9 crit to 18ap. Then warglaives stat wize are worth 114ap over deceiver+s4 offhand and this is taking every stat aswell as the procs into consideration.
Now when we know roughly the warglaives are worth 114more ap stat wize then deceiver+s4 offhand lets look at their weapons speed aswell as dps
Hand of deceiver:
238-357
114.4dps
2.6 speed
S4 sword (quickblade)
113-211
108dps
1.5 speed
Warglaive mainhand
214-398
109.3dps
2.8 speed
warglaive offhand
107-199
109.3 dps
1.4 speed
(The offhands has pretty much the same dps/speed, also since most of your damage will come from your mainhands i think we can say as far as offhands goes its a very slight win for warglaive but it wont make a big difference at all)
Hand of deceiver has a fair bit higher dps then warglaive mainhand (5.1) however its damage range is actually slightly worse. This will make abilities swing slightly harder for warglaives but since hand of deceiver is 0.2sec faster its overall dps as a combo will probably still be very slightly higher then the glaives. (despite estimating 50% of your damage comes from abilities and 50% from white damage) But considering offhand glaive is slightly better in the dps/speed department then s4 offhand makes this pretty even i would estimate this all to basicly cancel out.
So TL:BR i think having the warglaives combo would be equal to having hand of deceiver+s4 offhand and an additional 114ap (this is not including 200ap vs warlocks pets because its to specific of a context)
Is this balanced? For bgs i would say an easy yes, rogues are not one of the top bg classes, especially not vs players who uses consumables such as anti vemon or living action potions, as well as vs organized groups who will just blow you up if you try and focus out someone in the backline.
For arena i would say this gives a bigger edge to rogues comparable to 114ap aswell as 200bonus ap vs warlocks pets. Im not an arena player so i dont know if this would break rogues in 2v2 and 3v3, but it would certainly make them stronger there and since their already really strong in arena i would say its probably not balanced in an arena context to give wars/rogues access to warglaives.
However most people play here for bgs not arena and it would also make it more interesting to play warrior since you can experiment abit with fury or arms dual/wield pvp but i would say that would not be OP at all and worth further analyzing.