The so-called: 'Spell Delay'.

[Fiqure]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqy-9P4X50U - Please watch this 10 second video prior to reading the post.

Hello everyone.
I've been playing on Smolderforge for the past week, and although my account was created some 7 or so years ago, I haven't played much in the past couple of years. Everything being different, both skill and mindset, I couldn't help but notice major bugs in the server that, for that matter, mostly any private server has. That, however, should (in my opinion) be neither a consolation or an excuse. As I have love for Smolderforge and for the game as a whole, I decided to write this thread, and I promise I won't be that long:

The most important thing that needs a fix are all spells, be they instant, cast, or blown out your noses. For me it is more than slightly logical that the low population in Smolderforge is less due to the server being mightily awesome, and more to the fact that PvP'ers newbie experience would be fighting some random tryhard and lose for no valid reason. If you cannot relate to this, I can.

The most distinctive feature of the retail game is its unique fluidity and super awesome gameplay. That, however, is nothing super extraordinary. Spells, as I said earlier - instant casts, 0.5 sec casts, 10 sec casts, whatever - are CAST after, and NOT before the ANIMATION of the spell is completed. Meaning - you can NOT cast a blind until your hand is fully reached out. You cannot throw a death coil until your hands have finished doing whatever they have to do. Ironically, this deficiency gives an unfair advantage to EVERYONE, and backlashes on players that have played retail for years and find it very hard to adapt.

Secondly, as an extention to this, spells are NOT able to hit their targets UNTIL they have hit them. It is this simple. You don't vanish a death coil at the same time it was fired out and get hit by it. You don't Ice Block an incinerate right before it hits, and get a 3k crit. This is a MAJOR flaw that, in my opinion, is firstly not hard to fix, and secondly hinders the PvP experience to a great extent for anybody that is aware of what is wrong. I will just in case again mention that instant cast spells do not apply to this, but they still hit their targets AFTER the animation of the caster has done it's fabulous thing.

Lastly, I want to give attention to vanish and shadowmeld, as well as other similar spells (possibly feign death), and stun/incapacitation/root/fear removing items and/or spells. Originally, all of the above come along with a hidden approximately 0.1 second lasting immunity to their respective schools of action, the moment the animation starts and the same amount of time after it is finished. Therefore, Vanish, as we all well know, can Vanish ANYTHING. I will give you an example, and possibly explain the whole thread in a paragraph. Imagine the following - a Rogue and a Paladin fight. The pally is stunned with a kidney, is at low HP, has no bubble or blessing of freedom, but only Hammer of Justice (the stun) and a PvP trinket. The rogue knows that, so he predicts a trinket > and he blinds. The paladin trinkets one tenth of a second before the rogue blinds, and he becomes blinded. The rogue is an idiot, so he autoattacks him out of it, and the paladin does his hammer of justice. Despite the rogue's best efforts (be they lucky or not), his vanish, cast right after the paladin's HoJ, is either unable to be cast, or is cast to no effect, hence the stun. To our mutual surprise, two seconds later the rogue gets a 4k crusader strike and dies.

This. Is. Not. Supposed. To. Happen.
If both parties do this at the same time (a trinket and a blind), or the second one cast less than 0.1 secs later, the Blind MISSES. Moreover, if the rogue has pressed his vanish the moment he saw the animation of Hammer of Justice, he will vanish it. If, however, the Vanish is cast when HoJ's animation STARTS, Stealth will be gained and a stun will follow. This is due to the fact that if HoJ is cast when the animation is finished, this will happen after the vanish is already active ---> break it.
Lastly, please remove the impossibly annoying invisible snare applied after PvP trinket/WotF is cast (I don't know about other spells).

Some of you may think I'm going into too much details, others may skim-read the thing and tell me I am a retard. To sum it up for you: Spells need be cast after the animation finishes, missiles have to hit when they land, and PvP trinkets and similar instant-immunity spells need to be followed with a 0.1 sec immunity buff. It's just how the game should work.

To all others who will understand, and to the Game Masters and Admins of the server, thank you dearly in advance.

Yours,
Fiqure.

[Paniz]

The spells on retail hits after server-side delay and not "after animation". We have this delay on every spell in the game (even on some that should not have this delay), you can "catch" spells with your vanish: vanish-blind, blind-vanish, any CC (including paladin's HoJ) can be evaded with vanish if you time it well enough. Or it also can just break your vanish if you time it not good enough, this working as intended.

What we don't have - is immunity to certain schools due to delay. For example you use cloack of shadows - server side delay - during this delay your opponent cast some instant (no projectile) spell - CloS afflicts you - you still got hitted by the spell. This spell should be immuned.

Shadowmeld and PvP trinket buff - it came to game only in wotlk prepatch, in TBC you will be hitted by the spell that already flying to you if you use shadowmeld (you can't dodge spells with it in TBC) and pvp trinket should not provide you any immunity, http://www.wowhead.com/spell=42292/pvp-trinket this spell in the game only since 3.0.2. Feign death also can't avoid spells in TBC (dunno about later expansions).

edit:

Lastly, please remove the impossibly annoying invisible snare applied after PvP trinket/WotF is cast (I don't know about other spells).

Also this has nothing to do with snare or something. You have to press move key again after breaking CCs and it's working as intended.

[Fiqure]

Being able to ''catch'' spells has little to do with how the game originally works. I've vanished two death coils in the past three-four days, and have had my vanish broken by a DC more than 20 times already. It just doesn't work. I cant vanish blinds just based on reaction, because the spell is cast before the animation has finished, which makes PvP a game of guessing and knowing instead of playing. I don't know if we are talking about the same thing under different labels, but I've played retail long enough to be able to tell the difference. The server needs fixes in the terms we are talking about, if it is to improve corely. Bear in mind that I am talking about these things because I want to be of help. I have no problem of resubbing, playing with the fa**ots on arena-tournament, or not playing WoW at all.
As for the PvP trinket, the link you gave me states that the spell has a 0.1 sec duration, which has always been like this.

[robsn]

@Fiqure did u ever saw an private server was that close to blizz ?

[Fiqure]

@robsn As a matter of fact, yes. I knew two boys some years back that hosted probably the best private server I'd ever seen. >Axium WoW; We used to do duels on it, but after a while they closed it due to no population.
Seems like it's up again. Everything I spoke about here worked perfectly, so I am confident to say it's not something out of this world :)

[robsn]

@Fiqure that sounds awesome !

[Paniz]

@Fiqure vanish can't be broken by the death coil (if nothing been broken for last month). I've catched enough spells (including death coils) to be sure that vanish can't be broken by spells with projectiles. Probably your vanish broken by something else, maybe pet attacks or dots.

Also if delay on spells would be higher that would make vanish been broken much more often. Any dots from pri / lock, any counterspells / silences, some fireblasts, absolutely every spell that has no projectile (including CCs like blind and Hoj) can break your vanish and afflict you if you time that properly. And with increased delay that would be increadibly easy. Even normal melee attacks or melee abilities would break vanish increadibly often (pretty much everytime when you use vanish in melee range).

As for the PvP trinket, the link you gave me states that the spell has a 0.1 sec duration, which has always been like this.

This spell never existed in TBC. It came only since wotlk. In TBC pvp trinket doesn't give you any immunity, only removes all snares and CCs. I'm pretty sure you haven't played on retail during TBC.

[Fiqure]

@Paniz Even if vanish is broken by a dot or whatever, it still has to give immunity to the projectile flying at you. Moreover, because of this, and the not*correctly*working* spell delay, you simply cannot vanish a coil from melee range. I've done this and got hit 5 times at the least. As for the PvP trinket, the 'spell' got introduced in WoTLK because humans' perception was replaced with the PvP trinket characteristic, hence being a 'spell' simultaneously with being an item. The immunity I am talking about has always been present, and has nothing to do with Blizzard adding the spell in wowhead.com. If you watch closely, Paniz, the youtube video I gave as a link and compare the animations with vanishing a blind in Smolderforge, you will clearly see what I've given focus on. Other than that, I am at a loss as to how I can further contribute.

[Fiqure]

You know what, scratch that. The lad vanishes before the blind animation even starts. However, even if you are partly right, what I am talking about still stands true. It's just that what I am asking is impossible to do. Nobody can copy Blizzard's game to the fullest. It was a helpful conversation nonetheless :)

[Paniz]

You completely don't understand how things work in WoW and what you're talking about. First of all, if your vanish broken - it won't avoid any projecties. And it doesn't give you immunity to projectiles, it avoids projectiles (ofc if you're still in vanish). You getting hitted by death coils in melee range only coz your reactions fails you, nothing else.

Your fantasies about pvp trinket / prerception (what?) / every man for himself and "blizzard adds spells to wowhead" has nothing to do with reality at all. Blizzard doesn't add anything to wowhead, those spells there from the game database. In TBC pvp trinket doesn't give you this 0.1 sec buff (it does in wotlk and later expansions, you can notice it easily everytime someone use trinket in wotlk or any later expansion) and doesn't give you any immunity. Your video (even through it's from wotlk) doesn't shows absolutely anything, you just don't understand how delay works. You also can watch videos from Smolderforge where people do vanish-blinds and blind-vanish and you'll see that it looks the same, if you watch in with slower speed.